I don’t understand how Android is the dominant phone platform.

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WE could get pedantic and say that Windows Mobile was not an abject failure, but clearly windows phone in all its forms was.

Windows Mobile was successful pre-iPhone. And WinMobile/CE drove a lot of ancillary things for MS.

So I'm not sure Abject is valid even without being pedantic.

For pre-iPhone size of the smartphone market, maybe. But that market was tiny, compared to what happened when iPhone redefined the smartphone and made it the default mobile device category.

Total number of smartphones shipped in 2006 was 64 million, out of a billion cellphones sold that year.

The overwhelming majority of those were not running Windows Mobile (Nokia and RIM, with their proprietary OS'en, alone made up 2/3 of the market, with Motorola — 90% Linux-based — and Palm tying up another 10%).

https://canalys-prod-public.s3.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/static/press_release/2007/r2007024.pdf
 
Motorola and Palm (along with Samsung and HTC) used Windows Mobile. So that list isn't helpful.

Wait, the entire market of smartphones being 6.4% of the total cellphone market, Nokia and RIM making up 65% of that, another 6% of those 6.4 being Motorola, which as per link was 90% Linux — so we're looking at Windows Mobile having decidedly less than 30% of a miniscule market: how is that not helpful in gauging Windows Mobile success?

My words were "For pre-iPhone size of the smartphone market, maybe." I was agreeing with your assessment, kind of. Having maybe around 25%, tops, of the smartphone market is possibly not quite an "abject failure".

But on the other hand, that puts Windows Mobile at between 1,5%-2% of the total cellphone market, at its peak. 15-20 million devices out of a billion sold in 2006.

A resounding success, it certainly was not.
 
Yes we get it, you're an iPhone fan.

Reducing the “innovation” of iPhone to something that Windows Phone literally already had (as did Palm and the NEWTON back in the early 90s) — a grid of icons and a dock — is obviously trying a little too hard to minimise its actual importance. To the point of obliterating any actual content.

You really don’t have to be an “iPhone fan” to recognise the idiocy of that reduction.

I do get that it is rather difficult to imagine just how utterly astounding that initial iPhone presentation was to everybody (including industry honchos like the RIM management) at the time if you’ve grown up in an age where everybody has agreed on how things should be and the platform “wars” are fought mostly over stupid details and matters of preference.

The second that first demo was over, the industry was quite simply iPhone vs. Everything Obsolete, and it stayed that way for a while, even though those obsoleted interfaces still offered some technical functionality that might not have been available in the initial few iOS releases.
 
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It's hard to take comparing Apple's product developers to Einstein seriously too.
I’d agree. But the comparison was with the iPhone, not developers.

And arguably, the iPhone, while it didn’t invent individual components any more than Einstein invented Newtonian physics, very much did rethink existing technology to shape the direction of the industry for decades to come.
 
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In android you flick upwards from the bottom and you get a "drawer" with every app installed on the system in scrolling page versus apple who puts the icons on the homescreen and you flick side to side with it

The only thing i could figure is that (most) android launchers separates the app list from the homescreen while iOS doesn't have a similar list but instead puts all apps on the homescreen
As mentioned, in the App Library, you get a full alphabetical list as soon as you tap in the search field.
 
The funny thing is, I didn’t know that such a list existed until I read about it here yesterday. I tried it, confirmed that it works and is easy to use, and will probably never use it again.

This suggests that, at least to people like me, a “proper app list” is not a significant feature, much less grounds to switch to Android.

Complete agreement. "Oh, this exists? That's cool, I guess."

I've never missed it, in 14 years on iPhone.
 
There are billions of computers. And they all run the same handful of useful apps.
I've just done a rough look-over on my Mac. There are over 70 apps that I use regularly or keep as occasional tools. And I can guarantee that two thirds of those have ZERO overlap with somebody working in a different industry.

We can get into the thickets of tallying special-interest or specific apps on our various phones and devices, but I firmly believe that you know that your argument is facetious at best.
 
I don't know that I remember what industry that you're in, but I can't even fathom using 70 apps even including random tools.

Audio.

I guess maybe if you count everything in my job that used to be an app (or more likely a phone call to a person) that is now a webpage, then maybe. Even then though, that breaks down to Confluence, Jira, Sharepoint(less so than previously) Workday and SFDC.
but I honestly do 90% of my job in Chrome, Teams/Slack, Putty, RDP, Acrobat, excel, 7zip and notepad++.

There are spurts of Word and Powerpoint, but no regular use. Maybe the web based travel booking tool.

Yeah, if your needs are utterly generic, then it's completely expected that you can't understand or judge the need for dozens of specialised, single-purpose tools.

I know people in other industries that use media creation tools and other apps like that, but even then their tool chain is fairly small.

I'll venture that you have no real idea what "fairly small" means, and what the toolbox actually looks like, even if their primary platform is just one major editor or DAW.

My point is that apps proliferate well beyond their usefulness and that our need for tools to manage them such as finder is not a technologically good thing.
I mean hell, that's saying that an app (Finder) is required so you can find all your blasted apps.
That should just make you frustrated saying it.

This amuses me, because when the Finder was introduced in 1984, there were only something like ten applications for Macintosh. It was called "Finder" because it was a file manager, used to sort and find your FILES.



There's a different point I could make that is probably much easier to defend.
I propose there's a Dunbar's number for apps on a computing device and that number is relatively low. Certainly below 200. Again, ignoring games(which also probably has a Dunbar's number). Apps of similar functionality such as ride share or media apps count as one app.
If you have the app to accommodate a brand rather than a functionality, then it cannot be unique. If you have the Chase app for your personal finances and the Citi app for your corporate card, they are 1 app for Dunbar's number.
Okay, so that's effectively a total retraction. If you lump all photo filter apps into a "single app" — despite the whole point of specialised tools is that they do a single thing in a particular way —, then might as well go the whole hog and reduce everything to five "apps": Office, communication, media production, media consumption, games.
 
I thought it was audio, but didn't want to misremember.
My needs aren't generic, They are very specific. The tools I use are generic.

Yeah, I don't know the entire tool chain for Audio production. But dozens of specialized single purpose tools still sounds suspect. You're saying there are at minimum 24(Dozens plural means at least 2 dozen) fully unique single purpose tools that have no overlap, that you purchase and use, because no tool you already have does that thing?

Alone fourteen of those are installers/management apps for various plugin vendors. Zero overlap, because there is no unified plugin purchase/installation/authorisation/update scheme. Another fifteen or twenty are the standalone app versions of plugins that I will not delete, because there is no unified plugin purchase/installation/authorisation/update scheme, and randomly deleting any component may break some part of whatever dependencies that particular vendor has chosen to smoke up (or port from Windows). Or they're purchased via the App Store and NEED to have the standalone app installed to even be available as a plug-in.

Maybe that's true, but we live in a world of consolidation where racks of single purpose bespoke processing equipment get reduced to apps on a high quality computer all the time. And then those get further consolidated. BUT, that's not even my point. The question is do you have that tool chain, because each thing is fully unique with no alternative? Or do you have that tool chain, because app A does thing X better even though I mostly use App B. If that's the case, then again those aren't unique apps. They are useful apps that aren't unique.

I understand what you're saying from a layman's perspective. But think of a toolshed: Those 80 screwdrivers aren't necessarily "unique" in their functionality — they all do the same thing. But even though they do the same thing, a #6 Torx isn't going to work for a Phillips head. Are they unique tools? From a professional's standpoint: HELL YEAH.
From the perspective of somebody who has a hex driver and a $10 set of interchangeable bits: I guess maybe not.

Again, I don't know audio production worth beans, but my tangential little example would be that I volunteer on the audio board for a local Children's theater and when we need say reverb or some other effect on a voice (The wizard in the Wizard of Oz being the most recent example.) That effect was included right in the board. No external Reverb needed.
We could have used external reverb. Maybe we don't like the quality of what the board provides, but in that case, it isn't a unique device. Just one we like better.

Yeah, this is where I need to beat you down a bit. The whole point of being a specialist is a combination of knowing how to best work with the tools you have handy, but also knowing which tools best to have handy to do your job.

All microphones basically do the same thing. But there's a bit of a difference between a 19,000€ M49 and a 300€ Røde, even if they're of the same type (large diaphragm condensors). And even just looking at categories — electret condensors, large diaphragm condensors, ribbon mics, small-diaphragm condensors, boundary mics, dynamic mics — all of these have vastly different qualities and use cases. Or not, depending upon what you want, or what you have available.
I had several mics available including a large-diaphragm condensor, but I bought a pair of MD-441's and an MD-21 specifically to mic up the Leslie speaker for a very particular sound. Despite this, I usually use much cheaper SM57's in lieu of the 441's because I like the bite they give to my particular Hammond.

On your theater production: Sure that reverb worked fine, because it was a reverb, and you were just looking for some kind of reverb. But on an album production, the only justification for using it would be that it was precisely the exact reverb that was wanted. I have five or six external analog reverbs, all of which do ostensibly the same thing, but sound RADICALLY different. And that's not counting the BX20, gold foil, and plate reverbs my buddy has sitting at the studio. A vocal chain will usually have two or three different reverbs on it at some point. Just the voice.

One aspect of my job is sound design. That is all about nuance. That's literally what makes it a job.

A single use tool that does something in a specialized way that other tools also do, but in a different way is by it's nature NOT a unique application. It is one of a set of applications that do the same thing. The WAY it does things may be fit to purpose and unique compared to the class, but it is not unique from the class.
Is a polaroid cam filter app a separate and unique tool from one that applies ML oil paint filters but doesn't do polaroid-style?

Of course it is. If it's not, you're already in the reductionist mindset that arbitrarily erases distinction between products.

And again, reducing everything to 5 apps is taking things to an absurdist extreme. I'm not saying we must reduce everything to 5 apps, What I am saying is that there are far fewer UNIQUE and USEFUL apps than apps people install and use.
Your assertion was — whether intentional or not — uselessly hyperbolic, and I replied in consequence.

And let's be clear here. I'm not saying that using apps that are NOT unique is per se' negative. Because often as not, there is no single app in a category that meets everyone's needs. ESPECIALLY when dealing in niches like Audio engineering. What I am saying is that most apps Either are not unique at all, and far too often aren't very useful at the end of the day. but we install them anyway.
Point taken. That's the point I felt was valid, but I took issue with how you were making it.
 
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My point might also have been that we, in general retain a large number of apps whose relative uniqueness is profoundly low and where OFTEN, their usefulness is marginal.

THAT I agree with. But the initial impulse for this tangent was this bit:

I refuse to believe there are 259 useful unique programs in existence...across all platforms over all time. If you exclude games.

Which sounds like an entirely different point — or possibly, you just completely obscured your point by utterly failing at hyperbolic snark.

Eleven separate plugin management applications are obviously very similar in purpose, but still mutually exclusive, and thus "unique" by any definition, while still absolutely indispensable.
 
What do you consider "mid-range"? More Pixel a series, or more Moto G series?
Cheaper than an $400 iPhone SE. No idea what models on the Android side fit the bill.

Point is that the iOS equivalent of whatever is cheaper than $400 is used/refurbed iPhones.

It seemed from travelling in Egypt last year that the iPhone density, particular in the service sector, is FAR higher than the market share would indicate. Lots of slightly battered second-hand iPhones around.
 
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I don't understand what you are trying to say. "Despite knowing the actual statistics, I think my anecdotal impression is more valid"?

Apple simply doesn't serve the <$400 market. Used phones don't address that market, as your very own understanding of the marketshare of the iPhone in countries like Egypt would tell us. Using Egypt as an example, only 15% marketshare for iOS. That's tiny.

What I’m saying, and this is not anecdotal, is: iPhones have a usable lifespan several times that of any Android phone except a small handful of the higher-end ones.

This is reflected in the fact that about half of refurbished phone sales worldwide are iPhones.

https://techcrunch.com/2023/04/24/refurbished-smartphone-market-apple-iphone-2022/amp/
I assume — but this is indeed mere assumption — that this is even more pronounced in the private used market.
 
Are you basing your assertion that “Android outnumbers iPhones 3:1” on market share, or the actual number of phones in use?

Because, you know, I just showed that for refurbished sales, they’re on parity.

And that iPhones are supplied with system updates for five to seven years, with security updates occasionally reaching back a full decade, while select few Androids do get three years of updates, is thoroughly documented.

The data I’ve found puts the industry average usable lifespan at 2.6 years, with iPhones twice to four times that, and Samsung at about 1.2 to 2.5 times the average.
 
I just don't get why when it's explained that Android phones can be up to 20x cheaper than an iPhone, people are scratching their heads asking "Hmmm, I wonder why iPhone is not the dominant platform despite being clearly superior". iPhones aren't sold as cheaply as Androids, so they have a much smaller marketshare. As simple as that.

Market share only tells part of the story. "Dominant" means what?
Numbers SOLD?
Numbers IN USE?
Most money made?
Biggest mindshare — whatever that means?

My point, IIRC, was that iOS may have a market share (i.e. plain numbers sold) of 27% globally, and you may attribute this "weakness" to the fact that they only offer upmarket phones, BUT due to support and apparent longevity 3x-4x that of budget Android phones, actual usage share is much higher, with the lower-priced segments being disproportionately served by refurbed and used iPhones.
 
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https://www.demandsage.com/android-statistics/"Today, it is most widely used by mobile phone users from all over the world with 3.3 billion users."
vs.
https://www.demandsage.com/iphone-user-statistics/"There are more than 1.5 billion active iPhone users worldwide as of 2023."

Thank you! I’d been unable to find this — it kept throwing up the same market share stuff. “Active users” is the magic phrase, apparently.

So it seems that there are only slightly more active iPhone users than they have global market share.

Interesting.
 
If you don't like discussions about mobile OS marketshare, don't enter a thread explicitly about OS marketshare and then declare that this discussion is dumb.


Nobody is stopping you from making a Battlefront thread about "Why does iOS get the lion's share of attention?"

You seem confused and feel the need to reduce „discussion“ to arguing about established (or easily establishable) facts (I was discussing them, since I had to work partially on assumptions for lack of Google-fu).

But this is the actual thread starter:

Ars just published a front page article on how Google broke Google pay and I’m struggling to understand why that matters, fundamentally because I don’t understand why anybody would use a Google product. Google is the least reliable tech company. They constantly relaunch products on new codebases which results in an inability to deal with bugs or issues because they break as many working things as they fix with each new release. I no longer own an Apple computer but am still happily ensconced in their ecosystem because it’s stable. I don’t really understand how Microsoft dropped the ball so bad or why Amazon wasn’t able to launch a competing platform, but Android users seem relatively happy with the platform

It is anything but explicitly about market share.

It’s also nine pages ago, so the topic has naturally meandered.
 
Respectfully, that's like saying Asten Martins are dominant because poor people can't afford to buy them.

OK, maybe it wasn't all that respectful, but nonsense doesn't deserve respect.

If you wanted to rephrase the OP, it would be asking why some people buy Android phones even when the price is the same, because there is overlap in the pricing of Android and Apple phones.

This is an assumption that I don't believe is grounded in reality.

Do you have a source for actual sales numbers by price bracket?

From what I can see, there are only two non-Apple touchscreen phones in the top thirty best-selling phones of all time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_mobile_phones
There's a bunch of Samsungs coming in in the forties or so, but above that, it's pretty much Apple all the way.

This is obviously not a cogent argument in itself, since it also reflects duration of availability and other factors, BUT: It does allow for speculation whether iPhone might actually, er, dominate those market segments in which Apple which actually participates.
 
That's not what percentage of smartphone users have iPhones, that all teens including ones who don't have a smartphone at all for whatever reason. That's also a demographic that generally can't afford a $1,000 purchase-- that's purchases driven by their parents. Some of them would want an iPhone but would be only able to get a hand-me-down Motorola or Samsung or whatever. These are people who are developing lifelong preferences as they move into their prime earning years. Obviously some of that's due to the high % of adult iPhone users who have already been captured, just handing down their old phones-- but that wouldn't be a thing if the adults hadn't been captured consumers at some point in the past. The shunning for people with the wrong color speech bubble is 100% legit and real for younger consumers. It's not even slightly overblown and even as a full grown adult, I get teased and excluded.

Note that this is really an exclusively US-thing.

It literally isn't an issue in the rest of the world, where WhatsApp and Telegram are the default messengers.
 
And nobody buys iPhones these days because early models got bent easily and could be held wrong.

„Early models“? The iPhone 6 and iPhone 4, respectively, came after the raving successes of the iPhone 3G and 3GS, and the problems were, to some extent, fictitious and easily avoided — or proven to affect all other phones as well.

And yet, here you are, still talking about it.

Had the first iPhone systematically suffered catastrophic failure the way the initial foldables did, the only reason there wouldn’t be a Simpsons scene about it is sheer lack of cultural significance.


View: https://youtu.be/u6qxixgQJ4M?si=b-5mHKEOYr6LVYOh
 
Lol, you are missing the point. Nobody but terminally online nerds married to the idea that all new tech is doomed to failure until Apple does it "first" either knows about, cares about or even remembers the failed early folding models. Just like no real humans cared about Bendgate or "you are holding it wrong". By your own metric for cultural awareness of failure, where is the Simpson's episode about folding phones? I guess in the absence of such an episode, folding phones must be, what, a success?

And you think the Newton was culturally significant? It was a side project from a company that even the executive leadership team didn't expect to survive much beyond 18 months. As in the company wasn't expected to survive more than 18 months by the people running it. 🤦‍♂️Nobody was really paying attention to what Apple was doing at that point, because they had failure after failure after failure, and their corporate finances were circling the drain. Much wow. Such cultural relevance. Very significant.

The Newton came out in 1992, not 1997.

Apple was faltering, but still very much in the public eye.
 
I'm sorry, hinged designs are LESS durable? Allow me to introduce you to the practically indestructible Nintendo DS. You don't need to have a folding screen to benefit from a more durable folding phone.

Wait: the reason foldables are less durable is because of the folding screen. That’s the entire criticism. Delaminating, entryway for grit that damages the hardware — those are issues only because of the displays.
 
Isn't that pretty much what a fad is? All hype all over the place and then nothing?

Ask most people on the street what a newton is and outside of tech junkies like us, no one would know. Ask the same person about an iPod and they will know what it is. Ask them about a macintosh computer and the same people will know you are referring to the orginal mac

The newton was the start of the whole PDA craze. That pretty much fizzled out because the tech was not quite there yet. Modern smartphone usage delivers what all those PDAs where trying to accomplish

Of course nobody will know what a „Newton“ is, thirty years after the fact.

But in 1993, many outside the geekosphere knew what it was. The device spawned the „PDA“ product category — in fact, the term was invented for the Newton.
 
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